Comments on: Page 1 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com Just another WordPress.com weblog Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:20:29 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: RangerMan http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1118 RangerMan Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:20:29 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1118 A great analysis and likely right on cue with Chase's vision. Great comments too by everyone. Unfortunately, it's not the analysis above I question, but Chase's ending itself. It's uncharasteristic with what we know of Tony. He's always on his guard like a hawk. Would Tony really suspect that after a war with NY families and Phil's death that he would think there would be no bad blood left--Also knowing Carlo has flipped. We heard in more than one episode that many in NY believe the Sopranos are not a real family but a "glorified crew". What kind of power struggle or vaccum must have been left behind in NY once Phil was killed? It's hard to believe all was peaceful in the universe right after that and we can all go to Holsten's together and share some onion rings. Do we really think it would be all ok to bring his family unprotected out into the open like that? For Tony to sit at a booth with the bathroom door not in his line a site (bathrooms being where's he's roughed up a few people in different episodes). This is not like Tony. Every episode shows a man whom we know as very aware of his surroundings--his great sense of survival. For him to let his guard down like that especially in the presence of his family doesn't quite jive. I think Chase concentrated too much on presenting an original artsy and symbolic ending. It would make more sense if Tony would have been dreaming this scene. But the part about Meadow painstakingly parking her car kind of blows that. Anyway, it certainly was interesting but anticlimatic as one person above put it. I just watched the whole series over a month and never saw it before. I long for when writers finished their stories and provided closure for the audience, but Chase obviously wanted to generate debate. He's certainly succeeded in doing so, and I guess we get to go deeper into the characters through continued discussion. It would have been less difficult for the audience to accept this ending if it were a two-hour movie as opposed to a seven year series. It's great show just the same. Cheers, JP A great analysis and likely right on cue with Chase’s vision. Great comments too by everyone.

Unfortunately, it’s not the analysis above I question, but Chase’s ending itself. It’s uncharasteristic with what we know of Tony. He’s always on his guard like a hawk. Would Tony really suspect that after a war with NY families and Phil’s death that he would think there would be no bad blood left–Also knowing Carlo has flipped. We heard in more than one episode that many in NY believe the Sopranos are not a real family but a “glorified crew”. What kind of power struggle or vaccum must have been left behind in NY once Phil was killed? It’s hard to believe all was peaceful in the universe right after that and we can all go to Holsten’s together and share some onion rings.

Do we really think it would be all ok to bring his family unprotected out into the open like that? For Tony to sit at a booth with the bathroom door not in his line a site (bathrooms being where’s he’s roughed up a few people in different episodes). This is not like Tony. Every episode shows a man whom we know as very aware of his surroundings–his great sense of survival. For him to let his guard down like that especially in the presence of his family doesn’t quite jive. I think Chase concentrated too much on presenting an original artsy and symbolic ending. It would make more sense if Tony would have been dreaming this scene. But the part about Meadow painstakingly parking her car kind of blows that.

Anyway, it certainly was interesting but anticlimatic as one person above put it. I just watched the whole series over a month and never saw it before. I long for when writers finished their stories and provided closure for the audience, but Chase obviously wanted to generate debate. He’s certainly succeeded in doing so, and I guess we get to go deeper into the characters through continued discussion. It would have been less difficult for the audience to accept this ending if it were a two-hour movie as opposed to a seven year series. It’s great show just the same.

Cheers,
JP

]]> By: Not.So.Tough.Huh? http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1117 Not.So.Tough.Huh? Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:10:54 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1117 I'm gonna propose an idea,maybe one of hope, that the main character who I've grown to see as an adversary when it came to certain views, and on the other hand seen as someone that could have been a mentor or just someone to "shoot the shit" with,IS NOT DEAD... although it was made clear by the creator and director that in fact...he is. Think to the dream sequences of this show, of course being the viewer, we probably get to see them a lot more vividly than Tony, but isn't "The End" like dreams that he's had before (or any of us had for that matter) especially the "jump-cut" scene to where we look from his POV to see him sitting down? All I'm sayin is it could have easily just been a dream...or maybe I'm dreaming, hoping to wake up and hear about a season 7 lol. In all seriousness, it was a wonderful show. Messages were received by me that go above and beyond "La-costa-nostra" or whatever. For example it helped me see that no matter what you are in life in the end you're just a human being, and no matter what you've done there will always be someone there to outdo or top or even erase you. That, I think , was relevant through the whole series. On the brighter side it helped me remember we also always have options even if we think the roads may be dark and scary if we just weather it we'll be fine. So, to conclude, in my personal opinion if you live that kind of life, then that kind of end, in inevitable and then after that you're not so tough...huh? I’m gonna propose an idea,maybe one of hope, that the main character who I’ve grown to see as an adversary when it came to certain views, and on the other hand seen as someone that could have been a mentor or just someone to “shoot the shit” with,IS NOT DEAD… although it was made clear by the creator and director that in fact…he is. Think to the dream sequences of this show, of course being the viewer, we probably get to see them a lot more vividly than Tony, but isn’t “The End” like dreams that he’s had before (or any of us had for that matter) especially the “jump-cut” scene to where we look from his POV to see him sitting down? All I’m sayin is it could have easily just been a dream…or maybe I’m dreaming, hoping to wake up and hear about a season 7 lol. In all seriousness, it was a wonderful show. Messages were received by me that go above and beyond “La-costa-nostra” or whatever. For example it helped me see that no matter what you are in life in the end you’re just a human being, and no matter what you’ve done there will always be someone there to outdo or top or even erase you. That, I think , was relevant through the whole series. On the brighter side it helped me remember we also always have options even if we think the roads may be dark and scary if we just weather it we’ll be fine. So, to conclude, in my personal opinion if you live that kind of life, then that kind of end, in inevitable and then after that you’re not so tough…huh?

]]> By: dsweeney http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1114 dsweeney Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:25:49 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1114 Fair enough MOS, I'll take your word for that. And yes,if Tony knows Carlo has flipped to save his son's skin then for sure the thought would occur to him that Patsy might do the same. That of course is dependant on Patsy's Jason being arrested which there is no suggestion that he has. Jason Gervasi is busted selling dope but there is no reason to assume the Feds know anything about young Parisi, or any of his friends for that matter. More likely, on discovering who this Gervasi kid actually is, the Feds thought christmas came early for them and made Carlo an offer he couldn't refuse. This is all theoretical of course as I, like you, believe the hit on Tony is from an unknown source. Any one of hundreds of people that Tony has destroyed. Friends, family members, business associates he has turned over. Something I recently noticed in the final 6.b. episodes goes like this; there are a few clear instances of Tony being outsmarted by people in arguments whereas before he ALWAYS had the last word. Take the scene with Melfi where he bleats about suicide being the coward's way out. Melfi responds by saying that people who say that don't understand the nature of depression, " BUT YOU DO "! Tony has no answer for this. Similarly with Meadow in their final scene together, he is moaning about how she gave up her career in medicine to do law. She replies by saying if she hadn't seen the way he had been treated all these years by the FBI she might have become a paediatrician. Again Tony is struck by the irony of this and has no answer to her. In the Holsten's scene itself AJ rather glibly says " focus on the good time" and Tony has a pop at him. AJ tells him Tony himself has said this in the past. The point I'm making with all of this, eventually, is that towards the end of the whole piece Tony is not as " together " as he once was. He forgets things, confuses himself in arguments. Has blind spots when it comes to other people. He destroys people and then forgets all about them. Eugene specifically and for me, Hesh. The destruction he leaves behind him would eventually catch up with him. Not out of any moral sense but just that he couldn't survive for ever for is to be realistic. He's already survived two attempts on his life and at least two car crashes. It was getting like Star Trek, where the only people who died were unknown cast members in the " away team " who beamed down to wherever and you knew they were going to get it. The law of averages dictated Tony had to go with the dangerous world he lived in. Fair enough MOS, I’ll take your word for that. And yes,if Tony knows Carlo has flipped to save his son’s skin then for sure the thought would occur to him that Patsy might do the same. That of course is dependant on Patsy’s Jason being arrested which there is no suggestion that he has. Jason Gervasi is busted selling dope but there is no reason to assume the Feds know anything about young Parisi, or any of his friends for that matter. More likely, on discovering who this Gervasi kid actually is, the Feds thought christmas came early for them and made Carlo an offer he couldn’t refuse.
This is all theoretical of course as I, like you, believe the hit on Tony is from an unknown source. Any one of hundreds of people that Tony has destroyed. Friends, family members, business associates he has turned over. Something I recently noticed in the final 6.b. episodes goes like this; there are a few clear instances of Tony being outsmarted by people in arguments whereas before he ALWAYS had the last word. Take the scene with Melfi where he bleats about suicide being the coward’s way out. Melfi responds by saying that people who say that don’t understand the nature of depression, ” BUT YOU DO “! Tony has no answer for this.
Similarly with Meadow in their final scene together, he is moaning about how she gave up her career in medicine to do law. She replies by saying if she hadn’t seen the way he had been treated all these years by the FBI she might have become a paediatrician. Again Tony is struck by the irony of this and has no answer to her.
In the Holsten’s scene itself AJ rather glibly says ” focus on the good time” and Tony has a pop at him. AJ tells him Tony himself has said this in the past. The point I’m making with all of this, eventually, is that towards the end of the whole piece Tony is not as ” together ” as he once was. He forgets things, confuses himself in arguments. Has blind spots when it comes to other people. He destroys people and then forgets all about them. Eugene specifically and for me, Hesh. The destruction he leaves behind him would eventually catch up with him. Not out of any moral sense but just that he couldn’t survive for ever for is to be realistic. He’s already survived two attempts on his life and at least two car crashes. It was getting like Star Trek, where the only people who died were unknown cast members in the ” away team ” who beamed down to wherever and you knew they were going to get it. The law of averages dictated Tony had to go with the dangerous world he lived in.

]]> By: masterofsopranos http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1112 masterofsopranos Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:06:23 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1112 No, Carlo had already flipped as Paulie had relayed it to Tony that Jason Gervasi was arrested and Carlo had suddenly disappeared. Tony guessed correctly that Carlo had flipped. No, Carlo had already flipped as Paulie had relayed it to Tony that Jason Gervasi was arrested and Carlo had suddenly disappeared. Tony guessed correctly that Carlo had flipped.

]]> By: dsweeney http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1110 dsweeney Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:49:03 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1110 Sorry, dont't know what happened there.Word even got out about Livia's involvement. By the time Jun shoots Tony he has lost his mind, no doubts about it. Like I said before Stoppo why would he hide in the closet after shooting Tony ? There's nobody else in the house !! Sorry, dont’t know what happened there.Word even got out about Livia’s involvement. By the time Jun shoots Tony he has lost his mind, no doubts about it. Like I said before Stoppo why would he hide in the closet after shooting Tony ? There’s nobody else in the house !!

]]> By: dsweeney http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1109 dsweeney Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:45:30 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1109 MOS, when Tony enquires about Patsy's Jason and refers to the other Jason being picked up, are you sure Tony knows Carlo has flipped by this juncture ? I seem to remember it being later, when Tony is talking to Mink and says, " so Carlo has flipped ". My point is that if Tony is not yet aware that Carlo is going to give testimony against him then Patsy's position isn't in doubt or under any threat and so he has no reason to fear Tony and then possibly set the hit in motion. Stoppo, like I said, Jun HAD grievences with TOny, for sure, but he missed the boat, he has his chance and he blew it when the black shooters messed up the hit on Tony. Everyone knew Jun was behind it. W MOS, when Tony enquires about Patsy’s Jason and refers to the other Jason being picked up, are you sure Tony knows Carlo has flipped by this juncture ? I seem to remember it being later, when Tony is talking to Mink and says, ” so Carlo has flipped “. My point is that if Tony is not yet aware that Carlo is going to give testimony against him then Patsy’s position isn’t in doubt or under any threat and so he has no reason to fear Tony and then possibly set the hit in motion.
Stoppo, like I said, Jun HAD grievences with TOny, for sure, but he missed the boat, he has his chance and he blew it when the black shooters messed up the hit on Tony. Everyone knew Jun was behind it. W

]]> By: stoppo driver http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1108 stoppo driver Sun, 01 Nov 2009 18:53:58 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1108 Keith: The idea of Meadow (marrying and) having a baby with a son of the man who whacked her Dad or who authorized the whack is as disturbing as disturbing can get. If Mr. Chase's goal was to get the audience to interactively think, then this level of avenging karma certainly should grab the audience's attention and put the fear of God into all of us. *** Dsweeney and Anon: If Black Screen does equal Tony getting whacked, Why Junior ordered Tony's hit: 1. Go back to "Meadowlands" 1999 episode a. TV presenter informs us that 74 year old E. DeMayo (serving life sentence at Springfield) is the Boss and that Jackie Aprile has been the Acting Boss for two years b. Side Note: After Christopher's' "Yo Yo Mendez, DEFCON 4" conversation with Tony departs Bada Bing with Sil saying "Adios Junior" c. Tony arrives at the "SIT TITE LOUNGETTE" {get it!} and a series of POV shots occur after the door bell rings once: 1. Door Bell rings 2. POV per Junior as Tony enters - Door man/bodyguard is activated. 3. POV from Tony (note how Junior is looking down at possibly a menu) 4. POV from Junior 5. POV from Tony 6. An "over Junior's left shoulder" POV as Tony gets into the booth 7. An "over Tony's right shoulder" POV as Tony sits down 8. A "Back of Junior's Head" POV d. The conversation begins: T: Sopranos have been waiting a long time to take the reins T: That why I want it to be you J: This is your decision T: It is J: You speak for the captains T: I can J: Come here you . . . . You had me worried there With a hug and a whisper the "asking price" is established and Junior happily agrees to it e. Fast forward to the funeral: The Shakespearian level of treachery leveled against Junior is revealed as common knowledge amongst the North Jersey Family captains as well as to Hesh (an outsider) Sil: Tell me why this was a smart move to make Junior the big willy Tony: Look at him. He's content. He thinks he's the king of kings. Truth is every decision is made by me . . . Tony: Point is he's got the title, he's a happy camper. The house is secure Sil: Not only that but we have a brand new lightning rod to take the hits" Hesh: Smart ???: AS long as you guarantee to keep the fart in line Tony evades: Hey, I still love that man. I'm his favorite nephew. Those people went through WW2 f. Then see Meadows full screen all knowing "told you so" smile to AJ g. Haunting soulful music start (AE cut off the credits - what is this song): Son stares at Dad Dad in loving manner head nods to son Son smiles back Dad winks and smiles with a full smile back Son continues staring back. {{Stage set for AJ's inherent DNA to blossom (under Carmine of NY guidance) even bigger, better and badder than his Old man) *** Keith: AJ, as much as Meadow, did not "need" Tony (and if Carm ended up as collateral damage, Carm too). If Mr. Chase wants the audience to interactively think, then the depths (of Tony's final gaze and of the blackness of the black screen) that the audience is to plumb require the audience to soul search from within the little tiny boats that their parents pushed them out to sea in. (Ton'y Eskimo Theory) *** *** Keith: The idea of Meadow (marrying and) having a baby with a son of the man who whacked her Dad or who authorized the whack is as disturbing as disturbing can get. If Mr. Chase’s goal was to get the audience to interactively think, then this level of avenging karma certainly should grab the audience’s attention and put the fear of God into all of us.

***

Dsweeney and Anon: If Black Screen does equal Tony getting whacked, Why Junior ordered Tony’s hit:

1. Go back to “Meadowlands” 1999 episode

a. TV presenter informs us that 74 year old E. DeMayo (serving life sentence at Springfield) is the Boss and that Jackie Aprile has been the Acting Boss for two years

b. Side Note: After Christopher’s’ “Yo Yo Mendez, DEFCON 4″ conversation with Tony departs Bada Bing with Sil saying “Adios Junior”

c. Tony arrives at the “SIT TITE LOUNGETTE” {get it!} and a series of POV shots occur after the door bell rings once:

1. Door Bell rings
2. POV per Junior as Tony enters – Door man/bodyguard is activated.
3. POV from Tony (note how Junior is looking down at possibly a menu)
4. POV from Junior
5. POV from Tony
6. An “over Junior’s left shoulder” POV as Tony gets into the booth
7. An “over Tony’s right shoulder” POV as Tony sits down
8. A “Back of Junior’s Head” POV

d. The conversation begins:

T: Sopranos have been waiting a long time to take the reins
T: That why I want it to be you
J: This is your decision
T: It is
J: You speak for the captains
T: I can
J: Come here you . . . . You had me worried there
With a hug and a whisper the “asking price” is established and Junior happily agrees to it

e. Fast forward to the funeral: The Shakespearian level of treachery leveled against Junior is revealed as common knowledge amongst the North Jersey Family captains as well as to Hesh (an outsider)

Sil: Tell me why this was a smart move to make Junior the big willy
Tony: Look at him. He’s content. He thinks he’s the king of kings. Truth is every decision is made by me
. . .
Tony: Point is he’s got the title, he’s a happy camper. The house is secure
Sil: Not only that but we have a brand new lightning rod to take the hits”
Hesh: Smart
???: AS long as you guarantee to keep the fart in line

Tony evades: Hey, I still love that man. I’m his favorite nephew. Those people went through WW2

f. Then see Meadows full screen all knowing “told you so” smile to AJ

g. Haunting soulful music start (AE cut off the credits – what is this song):

Son stares at Dad
Dad in loving manner head nods to son
Son smiles back
Dad winks and smiles with a full smile back
Son continues staring back.

{{Stage set for AJ’s inherent DNA to blossom (under Carmine of NY guidance) even bigger, better and badder than his Old man)

***

Keith: AJ, as much as Meadow, did not “need” Tony (and if Carm ended up as collateral damage, Carm too). If Mr. Chase wants the audience to interactively think, then the depths (of Tony’s final gaze and of the blackness of the black screen) that the audience is to plumb require the audience to soul search from within the little tiny boats that their parents pushed them out to sea in. (Ton’y Eskimo Theory)

***

***

]]> By: Keith http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1107 Keith Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:12:16 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1107 When Tony was in a coma in 'Mayham ' Meadows calls brought Tony back to life. Had Meadows not called, Tony Blundetto would have taken Tony's briefcase and Tony would have crossed over to the other side. Tony looking through the Menu and Meadows trouble parking her car shows fate trapping them in a moment of time they have no escape or control over. In 'Mayham ' Tony survived his coma because Meadow needed him, it was not his time to go. Now Meadow is employed, engaged and happy. Tony looks through a menu waiting for Meadow to arrive and save him as she had once before. Unfortunately Meadow is too late to save Tony as she had in the 'Mayham' episode. Meadow also had saved Tony from FBI agent Harris by taking a bugged desk lamp to her dorm room. Meadow can't save Tony from Agent Harris's this time. I contend Harris made a phone call to Butch. 'Hostmans, seven o'clock' CLICK and .............................BLACKNESS When Tony was in a coma in ‘Mayham ‘ Meadows calls brought Tony back to life. Had Meadows not called, Tony Blundetto would have taken Tony’s briefcase and Tony would have crossed over to the other side. Tony looking through the Menu and Meadows trouble parking her car shows fate trapping them in a moment of time they have no escape or control over. In ‘Mayham ‘ Tony survived his coma because Meadow needed him, it was not his time to go. Now Meadow is employed, engaged and happy. Tony looks through a menu waiting for Meadow to arrive and save him as she had once before. Unfortunately Meadow is too late to save Tony as she had in the ‘Mayham’ episode. Meadow also had saved Tony from FBI agent Harris by taking a bugged desk lamp to her dorm room. Meadow can’t save Tony from Agent Harris’s this time. I contend Harris made a phone call to Butch. ‘Hostmans, seven o’clock’ CLICK and ………………………..BLACKNESS

]]> By: Joycee http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1102 Joycee Sat, 31 Oct 2009 07:41:19 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1102 Didn't it seem strange that Tony was paying so much attention to the menu in the final scene? Tony is not the type of guy that studies menus or is indecisive about what he's going to order. Didn’t it seem strange that Tony was paying so much attention to the menu in the final scene? Tony is not the type of guy that studies menus or is indecisive about what he’s going to order.

]]> By: masterofsopranos http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/#comment-1101 masterofsopranos Sat, 31 Oct 2009 02:57:25 +0000 http://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/?page_id=5#comment-1101 I'm talking about Tony specifically referring to Jason Parisi as Jason Gervasi's "pal" when he asks Patsy about him and Tony doesn't exactly look pleased. Carlo has already flipped at this point. I wasn't referring to the moment when Tony pours Patsy a drink although it may be a subtle allusion to Patsy possibly wanting Tony's position. Patsy did put the hit on his brother behind him. Patsy's motive is a product of his own self-preservation, he knows he may be a marked man if his own son gets picked up. I’m talking about Tony specifically referring to Jason Parisi as Jason Gervasi’s “pal” when he asks Patsy about him and Tony doesn’t exactly look pleased. Carlo has already flipped at this point. I wasn’t referring to the moment when Tony pours Patsy a drink although it may be a subtle allusion to Patsy possibly wanting Tony’s position. Patsy did put the hit on his brother behind him. Patsy’s motive is a product of his own self-preservation, he knows he may be a marked man if his own son gets picked up.

]]>